Army Veteran Scott DeLuzio's Painful Afghanistan Deployment

Welcome back to the Return to Base Podcast. In this episode, I'm talking to Scott DeLuzio, an Army Veteran, the author of the book, Surviving Son. He's also the host of the Dry Bond Podcast, which I got an opportunity to be on a couple of months ago. A little bit of a warning on this episode, we're going to go into some pretty graphic detail about combat operation and firefights in Afghanistan. So if that's something that you don't think you're up for today, then go ahead and skip it. We have a lot of great content on VeteranLife.com. And if you do skip it, we'll see you in a couple of weeks with the next episode. This is Return to Base, a Veteran Life Podcast. Welcome back to the Return to Base Podcast. Today, we got a great guest. Scott DeLuzio is an Army National Guard Veteran, OEF Veteran, if I'm not mistaken. He's also the host of the Dry Bond Podcast, which I had the honor and privilege to record with him not too long ago. And he's also the author of a new book, Surviving Son. I get all that right, Scott? You got it all right. Yeah. And you even got the name right, which a lot of people have trouble with the names. Yeah, you got it. Yeah, I've actually served with a couple DeLuzio. So I guess it's in my vernacular. How's it been going, Scott? Yeah, it's been great. Yeah. Since the last time we talked, lots happened with the book coming out about back at the end of August. It really is kind of taken off. And it's really been a kind of a whirlwind after that book came out. So I'm really excited to be here and to talk about that and other stuff, too. Yeah, excellent. And I mean, your book came out kind of at a interesting time with the United States leaving Afghanistan. It's almost like it was made to come out at that time. We'll get into the book and all, but I know that the interest was piqued, at least for anything related to Afghanistan, anything related to service. So it came out at the right time. And hopefully, and I know that you're having success, but hopefully it'll continue. Yeah, I'm hopeful. And it's, you know, it's been a great ride so far. I'm hoping it continues. So we'll see. Great. So Scott, a little bit of background about yourself. I know you were in the Army National Guard. You want to kind of give us a brief overview of where you served, how you served and, and what brought you to where you are now? Yeah, sure. So, so my brother and I, growing up, we were raised in a very patriotic family. You know, there's videos of us as kids, where we would be holding American flags and singing the national anthem and all that kind of stuff before we could even really get the words out like we were, you know, that that young. And, you know, I remember as kids, we would go, when the troops are coming back from Desert Storm, we went up to an Air Force base near us. And, and we, we greeted the troops coming back home from over there. And that they were our superheroes back then it wasn't like Superman or, you know, whatever. It was like the soldiers, the military, the police and things like that. That's who we looked up to. And that's who we respected. And so fast forward a few years, I'm in college, when 911 happened. And, you know, that just really, it really pissed me off. And I think like a lot of Americans, we were really pissed off at what had happened. And, you know, I, I had considered like, right then and there, just dropping out of school and joining the military, but I was already a couple years in. And, you know, I figured, you know, I'm, I'm close enough to just getting out, you know, sometimes the hardest thing to do is starting something. And if you stop it, and then try to start it again, you probably aren't going to do it. So I said, okay, I'm already here. This war is not going to be a quick in and out like Desert Storm was. So, you know, let me stay and get my degree. And I'll at least finish that. I'll have that behind me. And during that time, right around the time that I was getting out of school, my brother started going to military college up in Vermont, Norwich University. And he met a couple guys there who were already in the National Guard. And, and so he was like, you know, that sounds cool. I want to do that, too. So so he was already he was a cadet in, you know, the ROTC up there. And so he already had a little bit of the military kind of background with the training that they do there. But he decided to enlist in the National Guard, he went infantry. And and so I was, you know, growing up in this patriotic family, you know, reason why I gave you the backstory of like, how we grew up, I was like, over the moon, I was so proud of him. And I was just so, you know, thrilled that he made that kind of decision, especially during a time of war, when, you know, most most soldiers were getting deployed, you know, especially in the combat arms, you know, even National Guard were getting deployed. And so he knew there was a very real possibility he'd get deployed, you know, shortly after enlisting. And so, you know, that I was just extremely proud of that. But then, I don't know, six, nine months later, I started hearing these reports on the news that the army was struggling to meet their recruiting numbers for this was probably 2005 or so. And about the first surge, right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, which it totally makes sense. But it pissed me off because I was like, why? Why are they struggling to meet their numbers? Where are all those people from September 12, who are ready to move mountains to go, you know, get some payback? You know, where were all those people? And then I had a good, long, hard look in the mirror. And I said to myself, you know, I am those people, and I still haven't done shit about it. I haven't, I haven't put on a uniform, I haven't done anything. And, you know, my little brother, he joined, he's at least doing something about it. And so I was like, you know, what, I, if he could do it, I can do it. So I'm young enough, and I'm healthy enough. You know, why not me? Why don't I join? There's no good reason why I shouldn't. So before your brother served, you mentioned you came from a patriotic family, growing up Desert Storm. I remember those days with Whitney Houston singing the national anthem at the Super Bowl, or getting goosebumps, everybody across the country. Everybody very proud of what we did. We got in, got out. Of course, we had to go back later. But was your brother the first person in your family to serve that you were directly connected to? And it was just people in your family were just proud to be American, but hadn't served? No, our parents generation came from a different time. Right? Yeah. So so my neither one of my parents served. They they grew up during the Vietnam era. And, you know, the military was not looked at in the same way as it is now, you know, and not to say that they were anti military or anything like that. But, you know, they were they were on the younger side for Vietnam. So they were turning 18, like as the war was ending, and as a draft was ending and things like that. So the 80s were slim. Right? Yeah. So they, I mean, when they when they were looking at the military, they were looking at people that they went to high school with, you know, maybe you're a little bit older, who or lived in their neighborhoods, who were coming back from overseas, either disfigured, or not coming back at all, and things like that. So there was a, you know, there, there was that healthy respect for what they did over there, but also a little bit of fear about, you know, I don't want to end up like that, you know, that type of thing, too. And, you know, my, my grandfather on my dad's side, he served in the Navy during World War Two, he was at Iwo Jima, and in the Philippines, he was out in the Pacific area. And my grandfather on my mother's side, he grew up in Poland during World War Two. No, he wasn't in the Polish Army or anything like that. But he got still got captured by by, you know, a Nazi, I guess, a general or whatever over there. And he was like, forced into kind of slave labor almost while he was over there. So they, they, you know, that generation definitely knew the horrors of war, my parents, you know, kind of saw what they saw on television, and, you know, people coming back from from over there. But um, yeah, as far as my brother goes, he was the first one to join, you know, you know, from our my immediate, you know, close family, my cousin, he joined the Marines. And I forget the timeline that if he joined first, my brother joined first, I'm not sure which one was which. But, you know, they, you know, so the three of us were like the ones who really kind of joined the military and kind of grew up for our family. I grew up in Connecticut. Real hotbed of military recruiting there. And right? Yeah, I mean, there was there were like, there was one military base. There's one one Navy base down in Groton, New London area in Connecticut. Yep, exactly. That's, that's what it's known for. But other than that, it was like, it was basically nothing, you know, so if you wanted to serve in Connecticut, you know, it was basically on the sub base or the National Guard or reserves or whatever. And so that's what what my brother and I ended up doing. We ended up joining the National Guard. He stayed up in Vermont, you know, where he trained, he just got to know the guys up there. It was great culture, you know, that he fit in with. And, you know, I stayed in Connecticut, I wanted to stay a little closer to home. But did he serve in the National Guard while he was going to Norwich? Yes. Okay. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. So you could do that. You know what, we didn't either when he first, he first said he wanted to go to that school. You know, it was one of those things where, you know, we're thinking, okay, that means he's going to be in the military. This is a time of war, he's gonna go overseas and whatever. He's like, No, it's not like that. You know, you don't even have to join the military after graduating. But then he joined the National Guard. And we're like, Okay, well, now you're definitely going, you know, right. So, so you decided to join the National Guard in kind of response to the needs of the, the United States, you saw that what around 2005, you said, you saw that, that there was a shortage, you're already still so pretty hot from, from September 11. And there was 2003, the invasion in Iraq, and you just felt the call to serve in the National Guard. So did you just go to the local recruiter and say, I'm here to sign up college? It was the easiest sell that recruiter that ever had, it was like, I just I walked in, I said, where do I sign? And he's like, Well, you know, don't you want to know about career opportunities or whatever? I was like, No, I want to, I want to do infantry. And that's what I know. My brother did it. If he could do it, I could do it. I know it's, it's not the easiest MOS to join. But But screw it, if if my little brother can do it, then there's no way I'm gonna let him one up me on that. So yeah, I'm gonna do that, too. And, you know, so I had to get, you know, paperwork together, I didn't really go fully prepared, because I, you know, there's a bunch of stuff I needed to get together and everything before I could actually, you know, sign on the dotted line or whatever. But, you know, that took me, you know, a couple days to get all that stuff together. And then, you know, from there, it was just off to Fort Benning. Yeah, I actually have a couple months they gave me, they said, you have like a year window that you can go off to basic training from the time that you enlist. So with the job that I had just started out of college, it was like an incredibly busy time of year, I worked as an accountant at a CPA firm. And during tax season, it's just, it's just incredibly busy. And I didn't want to leave them short staffed during that time period. So I decided to kind of delay my my entry into basic training, by just not not doing that until after the dust kind of settled with all that. So I ended up going to basic training, did all that. During that time period, my brother was in Iraq, he did get deployed with his unit. So he was in Ramadi, this was in 2006. So that was like a really hot time over there in Ramadi. And, you know, he wrote me a couple of letters and told me kind of like what what was going on over there. And it was it was bad, you know, they they were getting in contact almost on a daily basis. And, you know, it was just really crazy over there. And I remember going to one of my drill sergeants. And, you know, anyone who's been to basic training, you don't ask a drill sergeant for a favor, like for anything. But I was like, look, I wrote down my brother's name and his information on a piece of paper. I said, look, I don't have access to the news or a telephone or anything like that. I said, would you be able to just take a look and you know, if anything came out, you know about him, you know, and I didn't know anything about Red Cross messages or any of that kind of stuff at the time. But I said, could you just let me know? And he's like, Yeah, no worries. I got you. So like, that was like a weird situation. But I was just like, you know what, I'm gonna ask. You have to, you have to. Yeah. And you know, what's the worst you could say is like, shut up private, get back to where you're right. Or did you join as a specialist, by the way? Yeah, I so because I had a college degree, I got in as a specialist. And I enlisted. Yeah, well, in the very first thing they said to me as I was getting off the bus, they looked at the rank on my shirt. And they're like, you want to die? Is that why you're here? You want to die? And I was like, Oh, how do I answer that? You know? But But yeah, the reason why I enlisted versus, you know, going the officer route was because, you know, like I said, I was I was extremely proud of my brother and the decision he made. And I didn't want anything that I was going to do to kind of overshadow what he had done. I didn't want to be, you know, a higher officer rank or anything like that. And quite frankly, I didn't really care about the rank at the time like that, that didn't mean anything to me. You know, I thought it might to him. So I was like, you know, I'm just going to enlist in our entire time that we are in the military. We stayed at just about the same rank all the way through he got promoted to E4 while he was in Iraq. So when he came back, he came to my graduation. We were both specialists. And then we both got promoted to sergeant at the same time, too. Yeah. Man, was he was he upset about that? Was he a little salty? There's all that rivalry. I come my brother's in the military, too. So yeah, no, he was good. He was good with it. But you know, one of the one of the things I never wanted to do was like to outrank him. You know, in when we got promoted, it was, you know, within a couple weeks of each other. So it was it was really close. So were you in the same unit in the National Guard? Well, so we were so we were in two different. We're in two different units, but are they fell under the same brigade. So so when we got deployed in 2010, the whole it was a whole brigade wide deployment. So it encompassed the Vermont National Guard and the Connecticut National Guard. And and so we all got deployed at the same time. And so that's how my brother and I ended up in Afghanistan in 2010 at the same time. OK, so you ended up serving how long in the National Guard? Just under six years. So when I was in yeah, when I was in Afghanistan, I had gotten injured. And this was towards the end of my enlistment anyways. But I had gotten injured with my knee. And when I came back home, I had knee surgery and it was going to take me right to the end of my enlistment with with recovery. And so I felt like the biggest piece of crap to sit in there at my at our trainings doing nothing while everyone else is running around doing whatever, because I couldn't carry weight. I couldn't run. I couldn't rock. I couldn't do anything. And so I would just be sitting there watching everyone else do it. So I felt like the biggest piece of crap. So I eventually I got out a little bit before my enlistment was up just because of that injury. But OK, so it was only a couple of months. Hey, having had knee surgery myself and had to lay around for a bit, I understand. Yeah. Hey, Scott, one thing I'd like to do is, you know, we. We have a lot of serious things that go on in the military, obviously, but there's also a lot of really funny times and and good memories. And I always ask people, what's something that happened to you that it's got to be something that's embarrassing, something something interesting that that confide in me here. Come on, Scott. So I actually got a couple of things. So so one, we were in Fort Polk training up before we got out to Afghanistan. And anyone who's ever been down there knows it's a great place. Beautiful. Yeah, it's wonderful. It's beautiful. I mean, palm trees, drinks, you know, beach and everything. Oh, yeah, it's perfect. OK, so on one of the rare days when it was pouring rain and the ground is soft as anything, our our platoon leader had the great idea to go take some of the guys out with the Humvees. And by the way, the up armored Humvees, so really heavy, which does great on soft ground, decided to have the great idea to take us out driving through this course that he mapped out through the woods. And and there's like this trail that went through was this dirt road, supposedly a dirt road. It was mud by the time we got there. And it was flooded and everything. And it was like, no, just push through, push through. We pushed through. We followed what he was saying. We got all of our trucks stuck in the mud. And so we left like around like, I don't know, five or six at night. And we're only supposed to be out for like an hour or two. We weren't going to be out like all night. We ended up not getting back to our platoons area until probably about lunchtime the next day, like sometime around noon the next day. We were out all night pushing trucks through the mud. We were chopping. We luckily had some axes in the truck and we chopped some trees down to like wedge under the the wheels to get traction. And it was the most miserable experience. It was so long, we were wet, we were we were frustrated and everything. But the cool thing about that was, so our entire platoon was on this, this, this drive around, it brought us together like so much like sometimes that that shared suck experience just brings people together. And it kind of like unites you in that that, you know, I'm in suffering. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it was something like that was their first the first commanding officer. The one they all hated on Band of Brothers. I can't think of it right now. But yeah, I can't think of it. Think of who it was. But I know you're talking about and it was like that. But what we hated was that experience. Like we hated the fact that we were in like, well past our knees in mud, trying to walk through this and get our trucks out. And it was so exhausting. It was like the it was just terrible. At one point, I think we were actually off of the base somehow. I don't know how we got off. Because there was this footbridge over this little stream that that we we came across. And it was beautiful. I mean, whoever built this put some time and effort into it. And we took those axes and we fought we destroyed it. We destroyed it. And we took the bridge and we brought it over and we shoved it under the tires and we use that to get the trucks out. All right. Because if you're the one who built the footbridge at Fort Polk, we now know who destroyed it. It's got to lose you. I'll send you his address if you ask. Yes. And yeah, if you get any hate mail over that, I will. I'll go back and I'll build them a new bridge or something. All right. Probably not. But you know, we'll see. The word if the email is strongly worded enough. Maybe I will say another one. I had another one. So before we went to Fort Polk, we're both my my unit and my brother's unit. We're in Camp Atterbury, Indiana. Oh, yeah, I've been there. haunted hospital. Yeah, that thing was freaking crazy. Yeah, my god. Yeah, that was that was a nightmare. And it definitely is haunted. No one will ever convince me otherwise. Definitely. So that place is creepy. It is a weird name. Mascara attack. Seems like that's what it was. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my god. We were we were freaked out. We did all sorts of stuff at night there too. That was that was crazy. But anyway, so we're we're at Camp Atterbury. And the day that we were leaving Camp Atterbury, we're driving down to Fort Polk. Our our company missed or at least my my squad or whatever we missed our time, like a lot of time for dinner chow. And so we had a few minutes before before the buses were going to leave. So we decided to sneak in and go go grab some food. And my brother's unit happened to be in there that happened to be his time that that he was in there. So he called me over. And so I had my assault pack on because like everything else was loaded up on the trucks. And I had like no room for for everything like ever. Like they gave us like way more stuff than we have space for. So I had like crap hanging off of my bag. I look like a hobo like like a homeless guy like just just wandering around. And so he calls me over. He's like, Oh, come on, come on, sit with me or whatever. And so I'm sitting there with him and the rest of his squad. And he's just ripping into me about how I look like a homeless dude. And he's like, he's just he's making fun of me so much. But this is just like, if you knew him, that's just who he was. Like he would he'd find out that the little thread that was coming undone, and he would pull on it, just unravel the whole thing. Yeah, oh, yeah. You know, and you just do. But if anyone else started, you know, trying to pick on it on anything about me, he jumped down their throat. It's like, you don't get to fucking talk to my brother like that. Yeah, yeah. You know, but but he would he would just he was just laying into me and I was I was taking it because I knew I looked like a jackass with all the crap hanging off my bag and everything. But yeah, it was just it was just funny. You know, it's a good memory. Like a walk in yard sale, right? Yeah. And I had I had a target painted on my back. Like it was an easy target. It was low low hanging fruit form. He definitely you also had birth control glasses on. Oh, I didn't know. I did not. I did not wear glasses. But he did. When he was in basic training, he got issued the birth control glasses. These are glasses that are so ugly that there's no way you're going to get anybody pregnant. So they call them birth control glasses. They're in fashion now. Probably. They probably are. Yeah, because the military stopped issuing those and they turn to something else. So yeah, they're probably cool. And like East Village is wearing them right now. He found him at like Goodwill. Like, you know, yeah, he's like, yeah, these are cool. And yeah, but there's actually a picture of him and I wearing he had two pairs of these glasses, him and I wearing them. And I was I was just screwing around. I was like acting like a jackass with them on. And so he he came over and we took a picture. And it's pretty funny. But that's that's those are good. Good times. Good stories. So, you know, I know that. Well, what do I say? I know I don't know what it's like to leave the National Guard. Right. I know it's a different situation for me. So in between your in the six years that you served, what's that like going off to be a soldier and coming back to be an accountant? Yeah, it's weird. You know, when when you have, you know, the one week in a month and two weeks a year training, you know, so sometimes you have to report in like Friday night or whatever. And so you're going into work and you have this big, you know, ACU camouflage bag and stuff. And you're bringing that into work with your change of clothes that you're going to change out of. So you can report in uniform on time and everything. And, you know, it's weird, like everyone else is talking about their weekend plans, like what they're going to do and where they're going to go and all that kind of stuff. And I'm like, yeah, I'm going to go sleep in the woods this weekend, because that's just what we're doing, you know? Yeah. So so it's definitely like a different lifestyle, you know, when you're in the National Guard, even though it's it's not a full time, full time deal. It's just it's just different because, you know, there are, you know, things that you you miss out on. There's things that you do with your family on the weekend, like you miss out on some of that because you're just you're not going to be there for all of them, you know, and and even social interactions and other other things like that. You're just not going to be around for them. So so it was definitely different. But this is your your path out, do you think, like when you decided to get out? And I know we'll talk about some of the other challenges you had when you were leaving the military. But as far as just transitioning into full on civilian mode, so it's almost like it drills over and I'm never going back. It's the way I think. Yeah, you know, it was kind of weird because when I got back from Afghanistan and I started going back to work at my my civilian job, I felt like I just couldn't relate to those to the people that I was working with, my coworkers anymore. Like I just had, you know, and there was definitely some PTSD and some some other stuff going on there. And so, you know, when I was, you know, at work and, you know, like people do, they they show up late to meetings or they, you know, don't they're not prepared and everything like that. I was just like, I was ready to jump down their throats. And I was like, these people are like, who are these people? They're supposedly professionals. But what the hell is this? You know, and it just was mind boggling to me. And and I had just a hard time relating in general to the people, you know, when when we were back home, you know, part of that was was PTSD. Some of that was the grief. And we'll get into that. But, you know, there's just there's a lot there was a lot going on. And so, you know, I got back in like August of 2010. And when I ended up getting out of the National Guard, it was in June of 2011. And, you know, I had submitted my paperwork to be discharged early. And, and again, we didn't get into all the details of, you know, kind of went on what went on in Afghanistan. So, you know, I'm not going to give any spoiler alerts quite yet. But so that I put in the paperwork. And when it got approved, I got a phone call and said, Yeah, by the way, your your paperwork got approved. So so I went to bed the night before, you know, still thinking I'm in the National Guard. I'm still a soldier, you know, all that. And then the very next morning, I get a phone call. And it was like a light switch. It's like, all of a sudden, no, I'm not anymore. Right. And, and there was no Yeah, kind of. Yeah. It was just like, you know, here you go. You're done. And did you get to keep your ping pong paddle though? I never got issued one. I never got issued a ping pong paddle. So that's too bad. But, but yeah, I mean, they're like, Yeah, that's it, you know, just drop off your, you know, whatever equipment you still have. And that's it. And it wasn't like becoming or being an accountant. Is that right? Yeah, pretty much with the experience and the frustration of having to deal Yeah.